Isn't King B from Essex? Llamaman201(talk) 19:38, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
It was in Series 2, but by Series 7 it was from Hampshire. I'm not sure exactly when it moved. I think this is a case where we should have both. Christophee(talk) 22:05, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
King B Powerworks[]
I want you to move this page to King B Powerworks or King B,
it wasnt even called King Buxton after series 3. I want the article to not use the old name.
King B was the most common name for the robot. 64.154.22.199 19:15, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
"I want"? I'm sorry, but "I want", especially from an IP, is not going to get you anywhere. Isn't it obvious what "B" means? Yes, obviously "Buxton". No, we will not change it if your only excuse is "I want". Is that clear? CBFan(talk) 19:20, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
No, i want to move this page because the name King Buxton has not been used after series 3. they call it King B not King Buxton. 64.154.22.199 19:28, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
And the "B" stood for "Buxton". This really isn't a dispute worth having to be honest. ManUCrazy 19:59, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
And besides King Buxton was the best incarnation reaching a semi-final so it takes precidence. Llamaman201(talk) 22:00, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
For one thing, your attitude is awful. As CBFan said, saying "I want..." is not going to get you anywhere. The article used to be called King B Powerworks but we changed it to this as we prefer to use more general names in these cases. King Buxton is the original and it's clear that "King B" stands for "King Buxton". There's really nothing more to add and you'll be wasting everybody's time if you argue further. Christophee(talk) 01:33, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
It seems that you have written a response to Llamaman201 but I think it is to me and not to him. Llamanan201 I agree with, King Buxton has been in 6 fights + Gauntlet and trial and King B Power Works has been involved in 9 fights, and Power Works was better, but the others robots were even better so that's why it lost more. the proposal was to move the page because I thought that King B Power Works was better not to vandalize the page. 69.10.53.194 17:49, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
That comment doesn't even MAKE any sense. I'm not even going to reply to that other than it's completely wrong...of course Christophee was talking to you. CBFan(talk) 18:17, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
Christophee's comment was indeed a reply to the anonymous user. The anonymous user probably thought the response was to Llamaman because it was positioned directly underneath Llamaman's comment. The anonymous user presumably wanted to change the page because King B Powerworks was the newest version of the robot, however this is not the sole criteria used to determine a page's name. ManUCrazy 18:28, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
This is just stupid really - its like arguing that Firestorm 4, or Plunderbird 2, should be the names of the articles. We have a generic name, and an explanation, however, I never recall it being called King B. officially, just as a nickname. Nicknames are probably the furthest down the list as an article title. GutripperSpeak 20:55, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
Further, I'd like to inquire where you got the statement that Powerworks or B3 were better. King Buxton had 4 wins, King B3 had 3, and Powerworks had 3. What an odd thing to say. GutripperSpeak 21:10, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
I always tend to indent after the most recent comment, so sorry about the confusion in this case, but I thought it was pretty clear from what I said that I was talking to the anonymous user who started the discussion. Most of this discussion has been pretty pointless really, so I suggest that we end it here. The current name will remain. Christophee(talk) 00:57, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
For the main picture, should it be changed either to the most successful version, Series 2, or Powerworks? I know it is just me, but when I think of King B, I think of the Powerworks version, as it was around for the longest and around in the later series'. Jimlaad43(talk) 19:57, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
Do we have a good quality image of that? One as good as the current main image? If so, then I agree with your suggestion. Christophee(talk) 21:44, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
We have good images of every King Buxton, though I'd like to use King B Powerworks. I've been rewatching Series 7 (I do this annually), and I'm approaching the All-Stars. I might snap a picture of King B while watching that, if the shot's good enough. ToastUltimatum 21:57, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
I think I've only watched each series once since I started this wiki, although I've watched some heats more than once so I could write up the summaries on their articles. These days I'm much more interested in the wiki than Robot Wars itself. Probably why I'm so terrible at any sort of Robot Wars quiz. Christophee(talk) 22:49, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the best image that could be taken from the All-Stars is the one you can see to the right. I think this makes the Series 5 image my favourite. On a lighter note, Christophee, it's well worth watching a series of Robot Wars again, you'll have forgotten how many of the battles went. ToastUltimatum 02:08, September 24, 2013 (UTC)
A quick Google search and here we go. A good photo of Powerworks from series 5. It appears to have been on this wiki, but shared its name with the new image Toast added, so was lost from the wiki. Jimlaad43(talk) 09:29, September 24, 2013 (UTC)
I take it the series 7 image is too grainy to be used? Llamaman201(talk) 14:24, September 24, 2013 (UTC)
So are people happy if I put the photo on the left as the main picture? Jimlaad43(talk) 18:00, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
I'm ok with it but let the Admins have their say. Sam(BAZINGA) 18:20, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
By all means, go for it. ToastUltimatum 18:29, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
I also have no objection. Christophee(talk) 21:17, September 29, 2013 (UTC)
He/It[]
It is definitely "it". Jimlaad43(talk) 18:31, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
I still say it sounds more like "he" than "it". Accents aside, it definately has an "e" sound at the end, at least from what I can gather. CrashBash (talk) 18:36, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
If you want more input, a link would help. ToastUltimatum 18:51, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
To write it out phonetically, "Tornado, I'-w's out". He didn't say he was, it was a definite "it". Jimlaad43(talk) 19:17, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
Still not hearing "it" at all. CrashBash (talk) 19:21, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
Wow, that is difficult to decipher. To me, it sounds like it could be either one. In fact, each time I hear it, I sway to the other side. Sorry I can't be of more help. Christophee(talk) 23:12, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
Probably doesn't help that the I of "It" and the E of "He" sound so similar. CrashBash (talk) 16:16, November 15, 2013 (UTC)
Rivalry with Dantomkia?[]
Would you say the fact that King B have fought Dantomkia four times class as a "rivalry" like Panic Attack/Firestorm rivalry basically due to them fighting so many times or does it have to be specific like the rivalry with 101 Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 18:33, September 27, 2016 (UTC)
Not really as it's barely bought up in all the times they fought each other. With something like King B vs 101 or Panic Attack vs Firestorm, it was always bought up, so it felt more like an on-going thing. Here, they just fought each other multiple times, and two of those four battles didn't result in either robot being eliminated. CrashBash (talk) 18:54, September 27, 2016 (UTC)
Correspondence with Simon Harrison[]
I recently contacted Simon Harrison via the King B Facebook page, asking him for permission to use some of the images he uploaded on the wiki, and asking for any information about King B he could give. He was extremely kind and helpful, and gave me a "potted history" of King B. Here is the full message.
King Buxton for series 2 was built between May and August 1998 This first machine was mechanically engineered equally between myself and Steve Monk with Phil Brett contributing to the concept and final assembly. All electronics were 100% engineered from scratch by myself. We used scrap and reclaimed steel for the build where we could as the budget was near zero.
We had to attend ‘trials’ in London Dockhands in August where we took just the chassis without bodywork or motors for the lifter (those parts not finished). I remember being impressed seeing John Reid there with Killerhurtz - the fist ( soon to be£ ‘major name’ robot I ever saw. I don’t remember many bots running very well but luckily we ran ok- just asked to run around some obstacles and hit a ball into a goal ( which we did easily compared to many others) and were promised a place on the show. We then had a few weeks to make the bodywork and complete the lifter electronics - but still I remember that we were still assembling the Robot until about 3:30 AM on the day of filming
For the second King Buxton ( first showing as King B The chassis was cut and re-worked to allow replaceable axels, a stronger lifter, air cooled motors by way of ducted flow fans and a rear ‘spinny thing’ weapon. The electronics were improved also.
That machine was built 90% myself and 10% Steve Monk.
Again at the trial / audition - the bodywork was not fitted. We ran the obstacle course and were then asked to try to knock down a pile of concrete blocks. We obliterated the blocks! ( big gasp from the small audience) But one of the heavy blocks got thrown up and came down hard in the electronics ( as the body was not fitted) and caused a large short circuit / electrical fire We qualified but it gave me an extra 2 weeks of work to repair the fire damage and meant that it was again difficult to be ready in time for the filming.
That machine took 8 months to build
King B 3 was entirely new in all respects This was the first I built entirely on my own. The chassis was all new so as to accommodate a rear 40cc petrol engine to power a cutting disc The electronics was 100% re-designed to add current limiting to protect the motors from burning out. It was a much longer and slightly wider machine and handled well
This machine Is the first that had any real money thrown at it - being financed from my credit card, even then the cost was nowhere near the price stated on the show as everything was cut, welded built at home without outside engineering being bought in
That machine took 11 months to build
“Powerworks” was again a new chassis to take advantage of the new 100kg weight limit. It was also modular and the back end could be swapped for a saw, a large plough ( never used in combat apart from a ‘friendly’ in a car park against Tornado) and also the convex rear bodywork which finally ended up on Remix Also this machine was built using a second hand lathe and machine tools bought from Mike Franklin ( the equipment he originally built 101 and Robodoc with ! - he had upgraded so he could build Anarchy)
The electronics design was new again As I planned to use LEM 130 motors which I had ordered and would have been a big power upgrade However! Lynch motors suddenly refused to supply the motors just a few weeks before auditions and I was forced to move everything around in the chassis to re-fit Bosch motors ( totally different shape) I never found out why I was denied those motors whereas Storm 2 later used them to devastating effect
Because I moved the motors, I had trouble with the drive electronics which was now behind the lifter motors.
I do remember qualifying for s5 without any trouble even with the machine acting up. I cannot remember who I qualified against as I was absorbed trying to keep things running after the hurried, forced re-design
Powerworks took every minute of my life from the end of S4 to the beginning of S5 to build ( bad days)
It was hard work and a lot of aggravation I remember. It never recovered to run really well for TV. It was my ‘unlucky’ chassis - even revived with updates as ‘Remix’ it had a lot of issues. I had stuck with it as I believed it had potential ( it won many fights after in Ireland after the first run of RW shut down) but it never really came right when it mattered
Remix was built in 6 weeks from Powerworks which had been revived from rusty scrap in 2015 to run again in Ireland just for fun - so I was lucky to have something ready for Robot Wars’ revival.
King Buxton 20 was designed before Robot Wars came back ( and befor anyone was expecting it to come back) as suddenly I had the feeing the time was right to build a King B that fixed all of the Powerworks problems.Unfortunately it could not be ready for S8 and as it turned out, not ready for S9 or S10 either Quite literally I had to re-remember how to build robots from scratch- and it took me 4x the time I ever imagined !
My favourite fight? On telly - King B vs 101 during series 3 Nothing comes close
Outside of Robot Wars - I always have fun battling with Beast in Dublin Its about evens on the score between us - but they last ever fight in the last Dublin show of 2018 was such a relief- as I could finally believe that after all these years I managed to build the robot I imagined in 1998 when I applied for series 2 Better late than never eh !
Hope thats ok for a potted history ? Sorry - si
This was even better than I'd hoped for, but there was one thing I had to clarify with him: if the cost of King B3 was nowhere near the cost stated on the show, was it higher or lower? This was his response.
I think I spent about £1500 for parts on King B3
Perhaps it was stated as costing more like £4000 ( i can’t remember now) but that was probably picked up in an interview somewhere - possibly we seid it would cost that if you bought in the parts and electronics that were made ourselves from scratch.
On a similar note, I asked a question to Harrison about the Series 3 Tag Team. This was his response:
"I cannot remember being made aware or asked directly about competing in the the tag-team event before filming ( But I think there was a list issued of some ‘possible’ extra events issued by production in advance- I’ll try and find it ) However, on set there was talk about it on arrival, some teams already had plans to pair up I think I don’t think production ever spoke more about during filming -Always it was the priority to film all the heats and then film the specials in any spare time (The filming period and use of the studio was fixed - so priorities were made, then it seems like production would stuff as much extra content into the gaps as possible) Unfortunately though, everything ran late due to ‘issues’ and so I guess a lot of the extras were cut back For me, King Buxton was really toasted after the crazy battle I had with 101 Production came and had a chat about this and that going on, but my ability to get ready again was obviously in doubt, I didn’t push my luck trying to get in on some extra specials, I was happy enough with what I had achieved, so that was that for Buxton, the team and I at S3"
— Simon Harrison
"Another thing you need to consider is that as you probably know, filming has always been split into two filming sessions, with two starting groups of ‘bots. ( except Extreme ) If you were in the early heats - then you were lucky in that you would have time to repair if you got into the later stages ( which were filmed in session 2 of course) However, if you started in session 2, everything was rush if you got through the heats and then into the later stages which were filmed straight after- However, if you were in the second group, you were often asked if you wanted to do the specials filmed at the end of that session Ok - sometimes teams would be called back after going home after their group 1 filming....for example KingB 3 was called back to do stuff in the second session for series 4. This two group setup also meant that sometimes there were teams that you’d never meet up with, just the luck of the draw that you never were in the same filming group."
I was wondering the other day if King B and 101 would've been partners in the Series 3. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 06:52, March 15, 2019 (UTC)
Unexpected Info[]
So yesterday I contacted Simon Harrison to see if he could remember anything about the Series 5 qualifiers. He got back to me today, having gone through old archives and emails, and gave me an incredible amount of information, not just about King B, but other competitors as well. I was gobsmacked when he sent me this reply, it's extremely detailed. I figured I'd share this with everyone because it's absolutely insane. I'll be adding pieces to some pages over the next day or two. It's incredibly long, but a great and interesting read.
your question made me look through some old e-mails and correspondence to see if I could work out an answer for you.
Around this period there was a Yahoo private group for Robot Wars competitors, but Mentorn would also post there.
Unfortunately the group is now dissolved, but I had some summary emails still floating around. I’ll get to these later after I try to answer your main question.
So I have to say I just cannot remember relating directly to your question if it was series 5 qualifiers I had to compete at or if there was one I remembered, then maybe a later qualifier for series 7 - but there was ‘something I attended’ that I remember being outside of normal filming which was likely a qualification event (not S6). (I tried to date it in my mind by the car I was using at the time- Robot Wars after Series 4 was a massive blur, but sometimes I work out what was when by how difficult King B was to load in and out of whatever car I had haha)
Anyways- I’m really not sure if I had to qualify for Series 5
I have a record of an email from the producer Bill Hobbins dated 25th April 2001 where he was asking what I could offer him for Extreme 1 I remember even by then, he was rather negative to King B- and I was hanging in only due to the Tag Team performance. I can’t remember what I replied to him exactly - but in the end I got chosen for Extreme 1 (likely on the basis of my performance in that Tag Team it seems as I think Mike and I promised to keep up the rivalry and put on a good show)
Now, Extreme was filmed July 2001 I think and then Series 5 was filmed maybe September 2001 ?? Is I believe it could be somehow I managed to skip the qualification due to the the proximity in time between those events and I just snuck in -as while Mentorn would love to have new, fancy, powerful and destructive machines- they still give a few ‘old hands’ an easy way in so that they have a pool of machines that they can trust to start and work when the floor team need someone to go on at short notice. We never let them down in that fact- we always started every match reliably and did EXACTLY what we were asked to do without argument. So I think on that strength, we weren’t asked to qualify.
However I DO remember doing some sort of qualification which if it wasn’t for series 7 ? (was their qualification for S7? I cannot remember either) then must have been S5 after all.
All I can remember on that session is that it was organised by Derek Foxwell, and at that time Mentorn (and especially Derek F who always disliked King B stating ‘why just bring a boring box’)it really really didn’t sound like they wanted King B in at all at that time. So I told them I was bringing a robot named ‘El Presidente’ to keep Derek off my back. When I saw Derek at the front door signing in Robots at this ‘event’ then I knew I was in trouble. He said ‘ where is this El Presidente ‘- that’s just king Buxton— useless’ I just apologies that it turned out impossible to make something new with so little time and money left after years of doing this. He was NOT impressed. Well, there were a few other really top machines that day- I remember bumping into Ia Watts with Bigger Brother. In this qualifier then I remember 4 machines - with one other ‘old hand’ like me,,, think it was one of the good flipper machines And I do remember for that other machine against 2 newbies it was a walk over for them and they dominated the newbies - but they left me alone and didn’t attack me at all (respect among old timers ??) and I just motored around at full speed sweeping up the poor stunned newbies. I did very little damage - but it was fun. The guy judging it I’d never met before- looked like he had no idea who was who. But it didn’t matter - seemed he was told to just take the 2 most impressive machines and he told me that I got through just on my impressive speed and driving skill. I was well pleased enough. The other ‘pro’ bot got through of course. The newbies went home I suppose. Dunno who they were, but they were at series 3 level performance-wise at best is all I remember . Felt sad for them as it’s tough to just get chucked out because they weren’t given any chance by going up against 2 machines with at least basic speed and accuracy.
I also remember there some odd looking machines that Derek F had brought along as maybe hi own House Robot proposals ? never saw them run, they just sat at the arena robot entrance- seemed nicely done, but simply no charm and looked also like the’d easily be beaten by good modern competitors (last I saw of them)
So whatever that was- it was a qualification I somehow got through luckily. BTW ‘El Presidente’ was going to be King B with an under-cutter up front - I never made it, but revived the idea for my Battlebots entry ‘Hoodlum’ in 2021 that’s how long that design was hanging around for.
Now, going back to my old emails I mentioned.
During and after series 7 was filmed, there was massive chat between roboteers about if the show had any future- would the BBC renew. For your interest, these are the chat’s I have recorded
July 15th 2002 - Ian Watts telling me that rumours that BBC had contracted 1 more show to be filmed October 2002 (turned out must have been Extreme 2)
In July 2002 I announced I was thinking on giving up as felt I was ‘old hat’ and had no hope agains the great new robots and had nothing new of entertainment value to offer either.
Andy Pugh messaged me to say that he was also retiring SMIDSY and hadn’t a clue if h’ed do anything new - felt that the new machines such as Dominator made of 4mm titanium ware just too far ahead of an invertible 4WD machine of SMIDSY’s type
August 21st 2002John Reid sent me a mail following up from Series 6 filming giving me an encouraging message to never give up and to get back to building. He let me know that no spinner got the the final of S6 and he managed to avoid fighting any - so was still hope for everything else.
Then nothing much till June 6th 2003 when we all found out officially about S7 and to my surprise was sent an entry form out of the blue ! (some new production crew, so I was given a new chance)
July 1st 2003 Shredder team mailed out to say they have seen an email sent out from Mentorn asking all US BattleBots teams teams if they wanted to come film in UK 27th August to Sept 2nd 2003
Gareth Dean makes a comment about their likely BB contract obligations and imagined only teams with budgets to build all new machines might make it over from the US
Then S7 announced as 26th - 31st August 2003 @ RAF Newton
August 11th Kevin Scott mails to tell me he was retiring Stinger as he felt there was no way forward with the design
I reply August 13th to say I was going to have another last shot with the King B I already had - as even if I went out in round 1 in humiliation- then at least I saw RW through to the end (everyone thought the show doomed by now)
So Series 7 went ahead
After that from September- a lot of chat that it was great effort, but likely the end.
Ian Watts mails me and tells me that Steve Carsey told him that he believed that if that a million viewers can be found then the show will live on, and be re-commissioned.
Sept 10th 2003 Steve Carsey announces to Roboteers mailing list that he is leaving Mentorn.
November 20th 2003 Neil Charlwood (associate producer) announces on same mailing list, he is leaving Mentorn.
And thats’s it we know it’s the end
Then of course nothing until 2016
There is stuff in-between, and lots lost on the Yahoo forum (like discussions I remember about likely match up’s in Tag Team and such) but though these bits and pieces might amuse you all haha
I just do my best to remember what I can. Hope it makes fun for you sifting out what’s what. all the best
Did Hobbins and Foxwell forget that King B was once a renowned UK Semi-Finalist? The animosity towards Powerworks in particular kind of adds weight to Team Storm's belief, no matter how flawed, that Mentorn were supposedly less inclined to accept box-shaped machines by Series 7.
If the extra Foxwell machines at S7 filming weren't Shove, Dozer or Eubank the Mouse, I'd be intrigued to see the 'House Robot proposals' that he came up with and brought along.
The idea for 'El Presidente' sounds like it would've been especially forward-thinking for the time, and a possible trailblazer if Harrison and Team B got its undercutter to work more effectively than Mobot's. That being said, I couldn't help but think about the Fast Show "Chanel 9" sketches when I first read the name.
The apparent correspondence between Mentorn and US BattleBots competitors, coupled with the first set of 2003 filming dates, effectively backs up the suggestion that Extreme Warriors Season 3 was still on the cards in some form or another. Had contracts not got in the way, maybe we would've seen this and a number of stronger US representatives in the Third World Championship.
Interesting to note a change of production staff between Extreme 2 and Series 7; at least the 'judge' in Powerworks' qualifier paid more respect to its actual performance.
Equally interesting to know that Harrison and the S.M.I.D.S.Y. team had considered retiring after Series 6 (which I'm guessing was referred to as 'Series 7' at that stage of his reply).
Knowing how much flack he and Beta supposedly got after BattleBots 2020, it's heartening to read the message of encouragement that John Reid sent to Harrison telling him to keep competing. Another reminder of how closely-knit and supportive the roboteering community can really be, in spite of the general sense of uncertainty Harrison alludes to elsewhere.
All in all, another fantastic correspondence, RobotManiac. Shame that the Yahoo group has been lost to time, but still a fascinating and fairly substantial insight into both King B's later entries as well as the consensus among other roboteers in the lead-up to the hiatus. VulcansHowl 16:37, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
